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Local,

At this point, it would probably be fine. I know Patch HQ at one point would have been against it, but guidelines have loosened on letters to the editor.

Gotcha Andrew, good to know! I am not opposed just was different than last year when some teachers wanted some info out there. I am all for some anonymity on these sensitive topics but allowing for viewpoints to be put out there!

If the directive changes again, I'll let you know. In that respect, I'm basically just a cop down here: I don't make the rules, I just enforce them the best I can to make sure things stay under control.

As a Libertarian, I am for a full and open forum for anyone to express their 1st Amendment right. But I also value personal property as one of the most important factors in maintaining a civilized society. Newspapers are both businesses, and also have privilege of the press. A healthy, skeptical and vigilant press is essential for liberty. When the press is complicit with a presidency/government in asserting an agenda, we the people lose liberty. But as a business they also have the right to set the guidelines for who can contribute and under what circumstances, just as a business owner can refuse your business based on their guidelines. The solution, if you want to "get your message out there" unrestricted is to open up a website where you can post daily, disseminate information, refute contrary comments, and spread your message. If what you have to say is valuable, people will seek you out for answers and validation. If what you have to say is worthless...

Some editing would have been nice. For grammar, not content.

Amber,

I do the best I can. I never did do too good in school in that area. Sorry.

I'm hoping that it doesn't come to that. I don't want to hurt the schools or public safety. It would be a tough lesson for the town to learn.

I had heard about people in town looking at lining up lawsuits at both selectmen and the town, but I never had thought of someone else being able to sue us. This is an eye opening point. Even the Bank Truck guy who comes through town and is armed for his job but wants to grab lunch is now a target of this possible law. Or actually he is breaking the law just transporting money to the banks since he has to go to banks in Westford. I can't imagine the town police are going to want to be the ones to enforce this. It puts them in a really bad spot.

There was absolutely no consideration to consequence in Jeffries' article or Denali Delmar's petition to duplicate it (Yes, I saw it in the Westford Eagle yesterday). We have a huge budget mess in town and frankly I don't want to pay the consequences.

But I respect your passion and your right to sue if our town oppresses your civil rights.

Thank you American Veteran for your service.

Hi "I love kittens",

FYI, we had a copy of Denali's petition up on Feb. 12 (http://westford.patch.com/articles/is-town-hall-big-enough-for-tonight-s-discussion-on-the-firearms-warrant-article)

We the breaking news on the Wednesday night meeting up about 20 seconds after the meeting ended, and a full story later that evening.

I heard this again today and I hear it probably once or twice a month, so I just want to clarify: the Westford Patch and the Westford Eagle are two entirely separate entities owned by two entirely separate corporations.

Joyce is a great person and I consider her a colleague in that she faces many of the same struggles I do, although both publications are different.

Hi "An American Veteran",

FYI, the proposed bylaw will not go before voters in March at Town Meeting (http://westford.patch.com/articles/warrant-is-closed-guns-not-on-the-agenda-for-town-meeting), and unless I am mistaken, bylaws cannot be changed, created or removed under Massachusetts laws in towns without Town Meeting approval.

Most Massachusetts towns have a Special Town Meeting in the Fall due to the July to June fiscal year cycle, and they can have more than one, but they are not required to have any and they require minimum attendance levels before they can be called to order.

If something like Article 30 is proposed at a future Town Meeting, we'll have it here on Patch.

Thank you Andrew. I also think the AG needs to approve them too after they pass Town Meeting. This was more of a way to voice my opinion and give a warning of what could come if it did pass.

Well said Michael!!

Michael,

I think the commentator's lack of knowledge of the law as well as history speaks volumes. Again, look at these so-called common sense proposals from Ms. Warren's supporters et al. they are merely further attempts to eliminate private ownership of firearms. We read of the need to re-introduced the Federal assault weapons ban that expired years ago, yet, rarely is a rifle used in the commission of these violent acts. The logic on from their perspective is to start here and chip away until they have accomplished what they truly desire.

You're right Protagoras. The only way to stop it is to fight it. I hope we can manage to do that peacefully and respectfully.

Michael, you're almost right.

The FA-10 form is next to useless as a tool to prevent firearms from filtering into the secondary underground marketplace. As a private seller, you have no way to confirm that the person on the other side of the transaction is showing you a valid LTC and PIN. Period.

I support the Second Amendment, have a Class A, and thought the BOS proposal was a serious over-reach, but making ALL firearms transactions go through an FFL -- as proposed on the state and federal levels -- is a great idea.

Mike,

I haven't used it, but it is my understanding that the E-FA-10 (electronic web version of the FA-10) will allow you to check the validity of someone's LTC/FID. The buyer and seller enter their information and the system validates their LTC/FID with their PIN #.

Mike, yes, the E-FA-10 submits the info to the state, but it's a post-transaction submission. The actual sale isn't contingent on the results as it would be with a FFL-transfer, as the FFL-holder's license would be on the line.

Protagoras, is it reasonable to think that someone intent on killing a room full of kids would actually keep round counts while aiming? Maybe with extensive training that might be possible, as would the 1-2 second mag changes you describe, but how many people involved in mass shootings actually had the type of training you experienced?

Again, I'm fine with the existing 10-round limits, and would like to see a ban on crap like bump fire stocks and drum mags.

Mike,

Limiting size of a magazine will not stop criminals from having larger magazines. Why do you insist on allowing the criminals to be better armed than law abiding citizens? I own 2 "Beta Mags" (100 round Magazines) that I keep loaded at all times. I use them at the range every weekend. I also keep one of them in the same safe as my AR-15 just in case someone breaks in. If there are multiple intruders I can make sure that I have plenty of ammunition so I can protect myself and my family. Why should I need to take the couple of seconds to reload if I don't need to?

Mike,
The CT tragedy is not a good example. Sadly, this individual, had no real opposition after shooting any of the adults. These children had no chance, it wouldn't have mattered what the individual used in this instance, the children would not be able to offer any resistance. it makes my heart sad just typing the previous words, that event defies reason, as an adult and a father, my mind cannot come to grips with this individual's distorted mind and its horror.
My point is that limiting magazine capacity isn't going to lead to less violence. There are times people may rise up to defend themselves and attack a shooter - this did happen in the AZ event, but the difference there is that this occurred in daylight and in an open area where the shooter most likely was in the midst of a crowd. Note that in the CO event, the shooter chose a dark setting, when people would be disoriented, and also, he didn't select the nearest theater to his residence, there were others nearby, he selected the only one that had publicly posted a sign declaring that carrying concealed weapons were not allowed by the management of the theater. This individual was sick, but still could reason enough to select a setting where no one could be expected to oppose him.
Regarding training, it doesn't take an extensive amount. We all know how to count. In all of these events, the individual involved exhibited some form of forethought as well as reasoning during the act.

Mike,
Let me put it another way - limiting the sale of magazines to those with smaller capacity are not going to prevent violent events like these from occurring in the first place, so why even have this law? Shouldn't Americans look to real solutions that will actually be steps to preventing this from happening? What has been lost in all of the noise created by the deluge of new laws to ban this and prohibit that is the honest discussion and review of our mental health policies and rules currently in existence. Shouldn't we as a nation that is loving and caring of each other look to doing something that will may actually prevent one of these events from happening? (nothing will completely stop violence, that is another issue entirely). I have personally been in many community mental health centers throughout the country and can tell you what the doctors and staff are dealing with is not easy. I must believe that the current state of mental health treatment in and out of community mental health centers is not what President Kennedy had in mind when he created them in the early 60's. An honest assessment and analysis of mental health policy in the US as well as the level of exposure to violence on tv, movies and video games would go a lot further to minimizing the occurrence of such events rather than prohibiting the magazine capacity. and for the record, I do not own one of thes modern sporting rifles, or so-called 'assault rifles' by the public.

An American Veteran said: "Why should I need to take the couple of seconds to reload if I don't need to?"

Bingo. This was probably the same reasoning used by the shooters in both Aurora and Columbine. Luckily in Aurora, the drum jammed.

Protagoras, you make a good point about mag limits not actually stopping violence from occurring, but as you accurately mention, the time taken to reload helped bystanders in Arizona subdue Loughner. It also may have enabled some in the VA Tech shooting to escape. The existing mag limits would have a negligible effect on any law-abiding citizen with a CCW from using it during an emergency, mainly due concealment being strongly related to the size of the magazine. Most people I know have EDC weapons of 7-9 rounds or less.

As American Veteran has pointed out, drum mags and other high-cap mags have only one purpose: to kill as many people as possible without reloading. If you worry about your stately suburban manse being overrun by a platoon of brain-hungry zombies or other neer-do-wells, then maybe a drum mag might make sense. Until then, it's a solution for a non-existent problem.

Mike, how do you envision dealing with the millions of pre-ban (both pre-1994, and pre-201x?) > 10 round magazines that are in existence. Do you want a nationwide confiscation of private property? What is so special about 10 rounds? Let's make it 7, like NY, or perhaps 5. Yeah 5 sounds good, nobody needs more than 5... wait how about 4? ....

Michael, that's actually an extremely easy issue to handle: registration of high-cap mags, and make all sales of high-cap mags go through an FFL transfer and its background check. Some of that is already done by existing regs in place, so it wouldn't be a bureaucratic quagmire.

And it allows people who have legally obtained pre-ban mags in Mass. to keep them.

Mike,

My CCW weapons have between 6 and 15 round mags but I take offense to you comparing me to the mentally ill CRIMINALS who commit these crimes. When was the last time you heard about me going on a shooting spree? Why regulate how many rounds I can have or how many rounds a magazine can hold? These WILL NOT stop criminals. I don't want to be out gunned by the people trying to kill me. All I ask for is an even playing field. None of these restrictions will affect a single criminal.

"that's actually an extremely easy issue to handle: registration of high-cap mags, and make all sales of high-cap mags go through an FFL transfer and its background check."

How do you plan to pay for this new program?? We have a hard enough time paying for (and getting what we pay for) from the current background check system. Also, Registering the magazines would require that they have serial numbers and to do that would cost the owners money. Also, it would require all manufactures to spend more money on new equipment to stamp newly made magazines so that they can be tracked. Companies won't do that and neither will owners of current magazines. Also, Registration is illegal in this state. It's also illegal on a Federal Level too.

"Some of that is already done by existing regs in place, so it wouldn't be a bureaucratic quagmire."

None of that is already being done. All you need to show an FFL who is selling a pre-ban mag is a Class A LTC. I'm pretty sure that criminals aren't buying their magazines from stores though.

And it allows people who have legally obtained pre-ban mags in Mass. to keep them."

We already can. My Beta Mags are Pre-Ban. and it'll be a cold day in Hades before I'll allow the state to track my magazines. Registration leads to confiscation!!!

American Vet, I think I should have been more clear on one point. I'm not saying your mindset is the same as those mass killers, but your rationale for having the drum mags is exactly the same: you have them because they enable a user to kill as many people as possible without reloading.

Of course, the main difference is that you have said you intend to only use yours in defense of your home, in the unlikely event that your home is attacked by scores of assailants who wouldn't be dissuaded by the first well-placed shots of armed resistance. Who knows? Maybe you're envisioning waves of attackers storming your porch, with the later ones not getting the message from the bodies piled up in the doorway. (You must really be a high-value target to warrant such sacrifices.) :)

Few mass killers were criminals before they went on their rampages. Most obtained their weapons legally. Some of them were described as fairly normal, maybe a bit quirky, before they snapped. Rarely do they have any issues with their neighbors, who generally learn of their misdeeds on the news, or when camera trucks pull up asking for interviews.

If someone is going to "snap" I'd rather they do it without a drum magazine....gives the rest of us a bit more time to aim. :)

Thanks Protagoras,

I wasn't talking to nobody in particular, it just looked like things were getting a little testy here, and I wanted to give a reminder.

I don't like name calling either. The "Warren Voter" just made some unfounded claims and accusations. I think that this has been a good forum so far. I like debates and will do what I can to foster good debates.

You're welcome Sir.

Bill, it actually is pretty safe where we live, which is the entire point of living where we live.

But I've lived in places that make the Acre look like DisneyWorld. And unless the "brain-dead druggies" are storming your castle walls en masse, high-capacity magazines are useless.

Have you considered a moat and drawbridge?

My town is very safe. We're a "Will Issue" town so as long you meet the requirements you WILL get a Class A LTC. The CoP doesn't believe in the Class B LTC. It's useless and has the same requirements as a Class A.

One issue that I have in my town though is that in the area I live it will take the police about 5-8 mins to arrive. They usually drive by my house when I do call because my house is numbered out of order. That adds to the response time. I feel safer with AR-15 and my pistols than I do with the police.

There's a misconception about the police though. They're not here to protect you from criminals. They're here to investigate the crime that occurred. If they arrive in time to stop a crime in the process than it's a plus. It's YOUR job to protect yourself.

American Vet, we may disagree on drum mags, but I fully understand and agree with your point about protecting ourselves and not relying on the police for everything.

I live in a pretty safe town. In the unlikely event that one of my armed neighbors turns violent, I feel safer with my own AR-10. Better takedown than an AR-15 and more distance..

Lucky you! I heard getting a Class A approved by your police chief is practically an act of God.

Amber,

My Town is a "Will Issue" Town. If I move to another town I may not be able to renew my unrestricted Class A.

...and I'm one of them.

And a Class A in MA is so restrictive, it gives you reciprocity in a LOT of other, less restrictive states. Most gun-taking Dems in this state are so ban-happy it's nuts, but they have no real idea how regulated we already are.

Bill, that's a really good point. With a 25-round mag, one could dispatch snapped neighbors, a couple of random circus clowns, a wandering buck or two, and still have a few rounds left over for plinking.

as far as I can tell statements of: - "rampant drugs" - the building admin is mean to me - no one appreciates me, ... are only coming from disgruntled, ZERO steppers!

Actually, Vinny, the kids I've had through there have all said WA has a pretty serious H/C problem; some have gone as far as to say while they have seen a lot of weed at Lowell High nothing touches the copious and rampant availability of harder stuff at WA. Having a young SRO could be good, but it could also be unproductive if the teens are somehow being tipped off in advance of the "random" checks.

Sorry that sounds like different straws to me. Remember as they say with mutual funds: past performance is no guarantee ...

Stating the SRO "knows" opens oneself up to the following: what does he know? what proof do you have of that? and when do you plan to present those facts to the building admin and/or SC? Nothing on those proves my hypothesis of different straws.

you can grasp at straws all you like:

1) it will not erase the ZERO you and other town employees took

2) if you really care about anything other than ZEROs, if you know about areas where these deals take place then you should DO SOMETHING about it (I would), maybe speak to the new building officer and not knock him on the other threads here

No matter the outcome of future steps, COLA, ... the WPS system would be better without the people behind the drive-by comments!

The SRO knows.

Apple developers don't know oxygen from oxycontin. But they can probably all tell you the stats on a number of creatures from WoW, MtG, or D&D. ;)