SC Harkness says 'cuts' will be made if the teachers win the ULP suit in court next week and the town is forced to pay year 1 steps....ironic since the FY2013 budget is INCREASING staff at the HS in both the Social Studies and English Departments by 1 staff member. So which is it? Do we barely have enough money to patch together EXISTING programs or are we adding staff? How can you expect teachers to believe there is no money to keep existing programs in place as they are being increased although the town cant properly fund them? What a load of rubbish! Westford wants it cake and doesnt want to pay for it.
Ok, The impact is going to be a quickly sinking public school system where staff does whats required and not a single bit more which is an incredible shame because WPS have been a place where teachers have always been very giving with their PERSONAL time for students. That ends here today.....

I wonder what Harkness thinks about the Arciero/Antonelli Teen Marijuana legislation? as chair of the school committee I would think she would support legislation that takes away a Jr operators license from a teenage pothead, as she has been negotiating the contract it seems Jim Antonelli has been left to deal with all the Marijuana issues by himself at WA.

Hi Bob,

If you'd like, you can send a letter to the editor regarding other issues, but please keep comments here to the letter itself.

The town is going to lose in court next week as she (A.H) all but concedes, she has LIED to the town all along when she said steps were not paid in the past when working with an expired contract and that will be proven next week. I do not expect she is going to apologize for her lack of truthfulness to folks in town but so be it.
YES its time to start cutting services you cant pay for....New housing keeps going up in town, more and more new business- I do NOT believe that the town is nearly broke or contend that if it is that questions are asked of town management on how they have put an affluent community on the verge of meltdown! I guess Bill Olson is not giving that $2,000 school Committee awarded fall bonus back anytime soon? Go figure. I guess he has 'earned' that but teachers have not earned their previously negotiated steps.

Parents of 8th graders and seniors might need to start drawing straws to see who is going to chaperone the Washington, DC and Disney trips.

How can Angela just lie and get away with it? She has lied about teachers never previously receiving steps and now this letter is full of lies! Teachers did not demand more last night than 2 weeks ago.
Well as they say about Karma whats going around comes around....and whats on the web is out there for good

Hey folks, I said it last night, and I gave a warning today, from here on, any off the topic comments will be deleted, as I just did now. If things get too out of control, I'll close this to future comments.

Anybody wants to send a letter to the editor on a separate topic, they're more than welcome to do so as long as their letters follow our terms of service.

How can Angela say that Westford is in such hard economic times when Jodi Ross has turned around and hired a second assistant. Jodi can cry me a river on how there is no money for this or that. But when she wants something the funds magically appear.

You can't put the children first if you put the teachers last.

One thing Angela forgot to mention in her letter is the clause in all the other union contracts that were agreed to, which is their contract gets opened back up to get the same increase that teachers would get. A large point she forgot to share with the public!

Also if she correctly stated the facts, it was only retired teachers that received any type of savings.

As residents in town we need to start asking some tough questions of our officials and Administrators. Having talked to some teachers in town and relatives who teach in towns nearby, I have come to understand step increases in the first 15 years for teachers is an automatic given. This is done across the country not just here in MA. If all the sudden we dont have the money to find what is expected of us as a town HOW DID IT COME TO THIS?
The bad recession of the past 5 years as hit the entire state/country....and yet when I asked around it seems our neighboring towns are all honoring the step increases. I for one an extremely concerned on the impact this is all going to have on education in town, my niece teaching nearby has said that teachers there cant believe we are withholding teachers steps from the last contract. My experience with teachers here in town has been 90% incredibly positive, and I know of numerous examples of teachers going way above their requirements to help kids.
We should have seen this coming several years back so how did we budget for the fiscal needs of the town? 15 years ago Westford was a very desirable place to live no strip malls and first rate schools. How the time change I guess. Now Market Basket Plazas all over the place and we will loose veteran teachers who go elsewhere to teach for the last several years of the careers and loose new teachers to are better paying neighbors. Time for some questions of those running the ship right now.

I for one believe that it is time for the teachers to stop whining. US parents of the kids have paid and paid to keep this school system what it is. We pay bus fees, activity fees, sport fees, instrument fees, higher taxes every year just to keep alot of these teachers in tact. The teachers are not receiving a step increase woopie, everyone is working on less and paying MORE! Never mind some of these teachers who live in less expensive towns and get to take advantage of sending their kids to this school system all while paying less taxes where they live! Maybe cut that offering! It is unfortunate that the teachers have taken such a whiny approach, showing up all over town and events, wearing their black to express how poorly treated they are. The unfortunate part is they are probably the teachers we cant get rid of... There are so many wonderful teachers in this school system who have a passion about teaching these kids and these greedy ones are giving a bad reputation to the rest of them. If they dont like what is offered here like the rest of the private sector has to do go find a better job somewhere else. Take your ball and go HOME!

I would not care if this goes the teacher's way through the Labor Relations Board or a Court of Law, I do not put much creedence to these boards, good old common sense. Parents , and alot of the people in this town are just as fed up and frustrated as we continue to pay and pay and pay and the teachers working 180 give or take school days complain they are not given what they are entitled to!!! I think alot of people who work in the private sector are FED UP paying guaranteed pay to people who may or may not be deserving of it just because you are a UNION! Really! Complain that you work and prepare on your own time, YES, that is called Making A Living! Something a good portion of the world has to do. Ask anyone who has to get up at 3:00am to catch a flight, and be on conference calls well into the evening... Yes, to provide for their family, and Yes they work YEAR ROUND and sometimes not being able to take a vacation..... I support the school committe has really tried to work with the teachers. TIme for teachers to get in the REAL WORLD!

I really feel bad for anyone who has to teach this previous poster's children. It must be very frustrating to try to work with parents who believe that teaching is only a part-time gig and who feel that educators do not live in the real world. At 60-80 hours a week, a mandated masters degree, and many working second and third jobs to pay for student loans and to make ends meet, I believe that teachers really do understand what it means to be in the real world.

My experience has been that anyone who is not a good teacher does not get to stick around Westford very long.

Sadly, there are too many people in the world who have the misconception that teachers who want a fair contract clearly do not care about the children and those who do care about children, would willingly do the job for less money. Find me another profession that has a state-mandated masters degree plus a required number of professional development hours, courses, and conferences (all at the employee's expense) where the professionals are willing to work for the love of the job. Teaching is a livelihood.

Don't be frustrated because you choose to work a "year round" job. There are plenty of universities around that offer masters degrees in education. Then, you can leave your private sector job, go to work for less than $1000 a week, and do it only "part-time".

Cat,
Thank you and know I support teachers in Westford 100%. My wife teaches in another town (Acton) and she makes about $10,000 more per year than she would if she were teaching in Westford. I know times of tight for everyone right now but Teachers have been lower paid in Westford than many surrounding towns (Action, Concord, Groton, Harvard, Lincoln, Lexington) and residents in town should know that these towns are not looking to take away step increases from teachers. (Westford's financial meltdown is a running joke now at AB). The Great Recession has NOT hit Westford disproportionately hard according to anything I have heard...Hang in there teachers many here in town DO support you and value that you are not 'part time' workers who sit around relaxing with all that 'time off'.

Thank You Heather, Many teachers have enjoyed teaching my children as they have learned to be hard working and earn what you get. They have to have part time jobs and are part of many activities.
Cat, just remember YOU chose that career path and all that came with it. YOU chose to be paid by taxpayer dollars! And even though Masters are not state mandated you and everyone else knows they are standard in todays world and yes paid by the individual who are now carrying student loans for them.
Joe, thank you for backing up my comment as well if they think they can get paid better somewhere else as a bordering town, it is a free world and they are more than welcome to go and try. You also mention towns (Acton Lexington, Concord) and I can see why they are paid more, they are rated much higher than our schools.
Now compare Westford to Chelmsford, Billerica, Tyngsboro, Littleton, Dracut, and I am pretty sure they are paid fair compare to these towns.
My point was that the teachers in Westford have been greatly supported by the school committee, parents, and a great community. Something I and many have taken pride in. They did not get there step increases and this is the thanks and appreciation and taking one for the team as we all have. Yes, a big slap in the face of my children sitting in their classrooms and to represent how poorly treated you have been. I take great offense to that as I know many parents talking around town feel too.

Molly,
I'd love to know why you decided to compare Westford with towns such as Chelmsford, Billerica, Tyngsboro, Littleton, or Dracut? Are their MCAS scores comparable to Westford's? (I suspect the answer is NO). I wonder if a reason that towns such as Acton, Lexington, and Concord are rated higher than Westford is because on average they spend $5000 MORE than Westford PER pupil. Food for thought.

Enough with the comparing of Westford to the surrounding towns and let's deal with the current Teacher Contract Negotiations at hand!

The Teachers of Westford and the School Committee cannot come to an agreement on a new contract. Understandably this has made many people upset and bewildered and it causes us to pick a side (do I side with the Teachers or the School Committee?) and then some of you come on the Westford Patch and insult each other! Stop it!!

The hard facts are that the School Committee cannot afford two years of step increases without cutting existing services to students and laying off staff. The teachers of Westford will not negotiate anything but their two years of step increases. There isn't any other monies available to pay the Teacher's step increases and if the teachers persist with their demands of getting two years of step increases, than some of their collegues will be layed off and services to the students that they are suppose to be working for will be cut. This is it and the bottom line!

Now how do both parties come to an agreement when neither wants to comprimise? First, we stop insulting each other and then we "seriously" sit down and negotiate. The blustering and the actions of the Teacher's Union filing an Unfair Labor Practice will unfortunately be the impetus to what is decided. Do I ask for a pay raise for myself and then watch my fellow colleague pack up their desk and go home without a job to return too?

How about a $10 million dollar Prop 2 1/2 override and a $10 million debt exclusion which will raise taxes by 15% for homeowners?

12:42 pm on Saturday, February 4, 2012

How about the school committee play hard ball and reduce the pay-level of all teachers to B-1 Interim which is the recognized pay level for individuals that are not expected to be employed in the following year.

So there is money for Jody Ross to get a 2nd assistant and Bill Olsen to get a several thousand dollar raise this year? Interesting... If westford pays its teachers like Dracut a 'Dracut like' education is what the town is going to provide! Way to go!

I would like to ask a question: The economy has been BAD for the past 5 years....how come only Westford cant honor even previous step increases? Most teachers in nearby districts (please look into this yourself) have received small raises in the past 2 years (steps and 1-2% over 3 years) Who is the one that mismanaged our finances so badly that we are near broke but neighboring towns are not??? If we have to start laying off teachers I hope some town managers are also 'let go'

Do you all hear that sound? Thats the sound of the Westford bubble bursting!
Strip mall Market Baskets, traffic, and Public Schools where the better teachers with job mobility will be leaving Marijuana use all over the high School. Yikes!

@MLuther

Where are you getting that asian population from? The most recent number is here:
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/enrollmentbyracegender.aspx

The number is 17.5 currently. Unless your margin of error is 20% it's a pretty large discrepancy (I guess your not asian)

Besides, since when did Asian kids start teaching themselves. Teachers are blamed when the kids don't do well on MCAS, Teachers are discredited when the kids do perform well on MCAS. Which ethnicity to we chalk up double standards like this to?

The Westford town budget is online for everyone to see. Here you go…

http://www.westfordma.gov/pages/government/towndepartments/westfordma_townmanager/documents/budgets/

If you look at the tax presentations for each year, the town’s income from taxes continues to grow, not go down. Your property tax rates have grown in line with everyone else's....a little under actually. In fact, the town’s income as a whole continues to grow. Through what means I don’t know but this idea that the money just isn’t there is another bald faced lie. I'll put the links below.
If you want to concern yourself with the facts of what your teachers are giving you. Boston magazines ratings of Massachusetts school districts, Westford is number 26. Top 6.6% in the state (Boston magazine only posts the top 135 districts, there is actually 393). This is only Boston magazine’s opinion, based on whatever criteria they decide. If you want cold hard facts and more truth we can check out Mass.gov

So with all these numbers Westford teachers should definitely be paid in the top 6.6% I mean it only stands to reason if that is the level they perform at, a fair compensation would be top 6.6% in the state? They are paid the same as teachers performing at the 40% level, just above average.
Well in the interest of the truth, how do they compare to the rest of the United States? Maybe Massachusetts as a state is overpaid compared to the rest of the U.S.A. If that is the case maybe the performance to pay discrepancy of the Westford teachers is offset and we can pull out the pitch forks and call them greedy again. The most accurate way to compare state to state is not by doing a straight wage comparison. $50k in California does not afford the same level of living as $50k in Kentucky. A crude example would be housing. You can buy a house in Florida for $120k. If a teacher in MA was making 60k per year they could buy a house in Florida for 2 years Gross wages. If they try to buy the same level of housing in California it would take them 10 years. This is another area where someone who wants to mislead you would jump right to a straight wage comparison.

So to recap, MA teachers are the best in the nation, they are compensated as though they are 34th, this in spite of requiring an even higher degree than 48 other states (counting D.C.) ask for. They are highly underpaid at an “interstate” level. Within the State you have a school district that puts you in the top 6.6%, a highly regarded school district that not only puts you in the top 6.6% for performance, but also efficiency with the taxpayer dollar yet they are paid as though they were top 40% They are highly underpaid at an “intrastate” level. I don’t blame them for feeling under appreciated and slighted in their treatment. So unbelievably under valued yet we have the nerve to call them greedy for wanting to maintain their under trajectory. I keep hearing a call for teachers to “rejoin” reality, well, I submit to you it is not the Westford teachers who aren’t living in reality, it’s the authors of these articles and the people denigrating the Westford School Staff for giving you the best performance in the country and wanting to remain as ridiculously underpaid as they are now. And enough with saying other districts have agreed to no step raises for this year without any context. I’m sure if you give the Westford teachers a $10k per year pay increase they would be glad to forgo their step raises for the year.

Links to back up everything above.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/best-schools-in-boston/index.html

http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/teachersalaries.aspx?mode=&year=2010&orderBy=AVERAGE%20DESC

http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/ppx.aspx

http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state

http://www.uschamber.com/reportcard

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-500172_162-10008953-52.html?tag=page;next

Julie, Boston Magazine posted their criteria, the others as well. If you can't see with all the math I posted above that they are underpaid and any budget problems are not the result of the school I can't help you. People (teachers are people too) are going to go where there talents are valued. "Better" schools, you can quantify that however you like. Lowell and Lawrence teachers who outperform aren't going to stay there if they aren't "treated" appropriately (treated encompasses many things) If Westford makes it clear they don't want 2 treat it's talent as well as other districts volunteer to, the talent goes elsewhere. U play the common sense card, and the naivety card when either suits you. I posted the math, the budgets, the ratings. You are confusing "demographics" and "socioeconomics." Since "asians" (I'm getting tired of using the word like this) are self taught, and families more invested Quincy and Lowell should be blowing other schools out of the water. Asian Populations significantly larger than anyone else but this isn't the case. Westford has a higher socioeconomic population which helps increase performance. But how you reason that "because we are wealthier and extract more from our teachers should be paid less" is beyond me. Socioeconomic draw applies 2 ur teachers 2. U can pay your way to lower caliber teachers & school system, the higher socioec population will follow the draw elsewhere until u have a Lowell and Lawrence. Nature abhors a vacuum.

Also, forgive the short hand text talk, character limitation is debilitating.

Part 1: Molly, it is very clear that you have made up your mind on what teachers are worth and not worth. Your opinions are not new and easily spewed by those who choose to remain ignorant as to what teachers do. I can extract from your rambling that you are unhappy with the entire philosophy of unions. As a successful and effective teacher, I am not in total disagreement. Problems that you allude to, mostly concerning, “protected bad teachers,” are issues that frustrate the good teachers too. These issues are well-publicized in headlines at the national level; and, it is all too easy to grab a pitchfork and march to the castle demanding the downfall of the union ogre. Please, take up your rhetoric and your opinions at the national level. It is a bandwagon that would no doubt welcome your involvement. What is clear is that you have no understanding of what is going on in the town of Westford. You look at the Westford teachers as the money-grubbing ogre fighting for an increase in wages trying to squeeze every last drop out of the town. This couldn’t be further from the truth...

Part 2: Westford teachers are not at the table looking for more money. Emphatically, greed is not the motivation here. The intricacies and points of each proposal are not public, therefore, as can the teachers, the school committee is able to put a slant on information they post here and elsewhere. The town teachers aren’t even looking to catch up to the salaries of our colleagues in surrounding towns. Simply, we are resolved to reject an offer that allows the gap between our salaries and our counterparts to grow so wide that a $20,000 difference between a teacher in Littleton, Acton, or Chelmsford and a teacher in Westford will be common. According to the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, the average teacher salary in Westford ranks far below the state average. In fact, Westford salaries rank 277 of the 323 reporting districts during the 2009-2010 school year. Counterparts with equal years of service in neighboring communities such as Acton, Chelmsford, Littleton, Lexington, Groton-Dunstable, and Lowell make a salary 4.5% higher, at a minimum. These facts become more eye opening when you consider that in 2009-2010, 97% of Westford 10th graders scored in the Advanced/Proficient Categories on the English Language Arts MCAS, 97% Advanced/Proficient on the Math, and 94% Advanced/Proficient on the Science. These percentages rank Westford above all of these surrounding towns....

Part 3: Geographically farther, but MCAS rank comparable districts, such as Concord-Carlisle, Dover-Sherborn, Andover, Wellesley, Weston, and Hopkinton have salaries 10-15% higher than Westford counterparts with the same years of service. This can amount to as much as a $14,000 difference for a teacher with the same years of experience. In 2010, The Boston Globe ranked Westford 6th in the state for ELA, 11th in the state for Math, and 9th in state in Science for tenth grade MCAS results out of 350 reporting districts. In 2011, The Boston Globe ranked Westford tenth graders 16th, 8th, and 10th respectively, in these same categories (286 reporting districts).

You also insinuated that the teachers wearing black are probably the ones who are bad teachers that “we should get rid of”. As with the private sector, there are different levels of talent in teaching. I can also tell you that in Westford, there is an extremely high bar to which a teacher must aspire to be considered worthy of working for the Westford Public Schools. The interview and evaluation process is rigorous. Those teachers wearing black are all considered highly-qualified with advanced degrees, years of service, and a genuine love for the profession. You are slinging at the teachers you think are the “wonderful ones.”

Part 4: You also mentioned the value of the parents to the Westford Public Schools. This is one point on which we agree. Working shoulder to shoulder, the highly qualified teachers and determined parents of this town have made this school district a model one. We—the parents, teachers, and administration—have high standards and working with the lowest per-pupil-expenditure of any town mentioned here, have maintained a reputation of excellence. Your children are hard working and well adjusted because of you and the good teachers they have had the opportunity to have. Make no mistake, it does take a village to raise a child and your child’s teachers are part of that village. One would be sadly misinformed to think that teachers do not play an integral role in raising a child as children spend ½ of their waking hours in school. There is a reason why Westford is a sought after community.

Part 5: I didn’t get into teaching for the summers off, when I do work another job. I didn’t get into the profession for the salary that doesn’t come close to those with the same education level in the private sector. I didn’t get into teaching to deal with the opinions of folks like yourself who quite clearly don’t have the faintest idea of what it takes to be a teacher but can shamefully develop opinions just the same. I challenge you to spend a few days substituting in a classroom at any grade level and come away with the same attitude you have now. To that end, I would be happy to teach your children. Yours too, Heather. I became a teacher because someone clearly needs to show them the value and importance of a first class education, integrity, and that they should do their due diligence in research before developing ill-informed opinions based on assumptions. Finally, it is clear that only in school will your children learn to develop a well-worded, well-supported, fact based argument that is grammatically correct.

Regards.

*Facts and figures taken from the DESE website where MCAS results, district contracts, salary listings, and per-pupil-expenditure can all be verified.

Lots of data and lots of charts and lots of rankings. Everyone can look at these things and see something different. First of all did not need the links was very well aware. I basically see that the teachers are not paid soooo less than all the other surrounding towns. So many factors skew the data as to why one town can pay teachers compared to another town. Population, property tax rating and younger teachers as Amber and others have mentioned. The bottom line in my OPINION is that the teachers here don't have it soooooo bad and feel they took a whiny approach to make their point. Teachers became teachers by their choice. Yes, very happy some of the great teachers that did make that choice but again noone twisted your arm to make that choice and if you do not like how it works QUIT! I know many of young people that have all their college debt and cant find a job right now and not making the money to match their college education either. Why do some teachers act like they are the only ones that are educated and not making enough money...It is called LIFE right now. The problem with some teachers and remember this they will never make enough money and noone will EVER treat them right. I guess I don't know what your looking for. I bet the teachers at those top pay scales complain in their towns tooo. I think the teachers of Westford had a great support system and yes not perfect kids but us parents have really helped those rankings too.

As for the teachers wearing black, Yes I feel it is a direct slap in the face to the children you are teaching! To attempt to send a message about how poorly treated teachers are was a great lesson to teach all my kids of how not to behave and that behavior in a private sector job would not work. My kids who work know this. They respect where their paycheck comes from or they won't have a paycheck. Their choice!
As for me making up my mind what teachers are worth or not worth the teachers and their approach did that for me. I actually had a high regard for the teachers here in Westford as my kids have had great experiences. I actually thought the teachers here were not like alot of other ones, as soon things did not go their way wow. As for living a day as a teacher, anyone can say this try, flying all over the country!!! Try alot of other things. Really, goes to show you how out of touch to other people you are.

Julie C thanks for the actual data. Comparing teacher salaries to other towns who have higher home valuation and property tax rates. Acton tax rate is 18.08. And they pay all the sport fees etc... Westford is a desirable place to live because we have managed to have great schools and keep the tax rate down as a whole for the town.
A good portion of the towns revenues are going to the schools. I think the school committee has tried really hard to preserve and grow and improve the schools and I am under the impression step increases are not guaranteed but negotiated. Angela Harkness and the rest of the school committee I believe are very dedicated to upholding the standards of Westford Schools. Look in Littleton they are in the same situation and they on average are paid higher than Westford a joke!

Charlotte as for not having a clue of what is going on in Westford couldn't be further from the truth. Very well aware of the goings on in my town. People can put alot of data out there and try to have everyone look at it a different way and great everyone is entitled to see it the way they want. But my opinion stands about the teachers approach to getting their point across. Very unprofessional and vey unbecoming. but the joys of being in a UNION! You don't look like you get alot of choice. As for being so Unified and ALL teachers are in agreement of this. How come at all the passing out of flyers I have only seen a handful of teachers. Westford has over 300 teachers employed. I bet there are alot of teachers who would love to get there step increase but may just understand they can't. What would happen if they spoke out about that? Can't imagine all the teachers associations would be too happy. Teachers have an important job, but there are alot of people in the world who have very important jobs. Any job that puts food on a table and a roof over their heads for a family is of importance. Charlotte look around there are other people in the world.... not just teachers....

Hi all,

Just a reminder, any comments that don't meet our terms of service (westford.patch.com/terms) may be removed at Patch's descretion, so please keep it as civil as possible.

I live in Westford, used to teach here and have taught in Harvard for the past 10 years. There is no comparison that although Westford is a great place to live teachers (in my experience) have been treated and payed significantly better in Harvard than Westford (I teach high school science). Its not only base pay but course reimbursement, stipends for curriculars, mentor program etc.
For the life of me with districts so close that are better for teachers I cant imagine now why younger teachers would stay in Westford and make $15,000 or more less than in a place like Harvard AND have to work for a superintendent and school committee that seems to be apathetic to their teachers.

There are going to be many more first year inexperienced (but perhaps wonderful) teachers in westford soon as many wonderful experienced veteran and younger teacher leave. Thats the reality. I hope administrators think about what they are going to say in an interview with a perspective candidate about how great the westford Schhol culture (used to be) is, and hello to working with no contract maybe for the next several years 0-0-0 when other towns are not doing this. Now ask yourself what first year teacher will pick westford if they have some job choices? not many. What you will get is teachers settling for Westford if thats the ONLY job they can get...I am sure the classrooms will be staffed with teachers but to think this isnt going to impact the kids in those classrooms is naive.
In the past 'weak teachers' were given a chance to improve or were quickly shown the door, that bar is going to have to be lowered a few notches if this isnt fixed soon

@Dwight. Littleton was just an example of higher paid teachers still not happy and in a similar situation. As for Westford being cheap on Special Education. That is a subject in itself. All I can say is that making that determination of who would BENEFIT and who REQUIRES them must be a very difficult decision due to the crazy crazy costs of testing and the services. A decision I am glad I do not have to make. My suggestion at this point to help those who need them would be to get rid of the perk of the teachers who live in different towns but their kids get to go to school here. I would love to know the numbers but to be adding 6594/pp expenditure and not paying Westford taxes and your right some WESTFORD child is now being cheaped on I have an issue with that. Let's just take those funds and help OUR kids!
@Dianne great happy you work in Harvard as I said in past threads if you can find a better gig Go! Can't compare town to town and what they are making as Julie said their average tax bill is way higher. Try being one of those 85FTE that Harvard hires. I can imagine not easy to get a job over there.
@Anne are you serious it is happening EVERYWHERE and it has been happening FOREVER!!! I remember being in high school and school cancelled because the teachers did not have a contract and they were picketing outside all the schools. I mean really! Again everyone trying to scare the parents and act like their kids education is going to down the tubes over this!!! It won't....

Molly:
The thing I find interesting about Littleton (other than the teachers there are unhappy and working to rule like ours) is that they ARE being offered their steps AND a small COLA (Clost of living adjustment) which I think is .5% or 1% over 2 years.
Here we are offering NO Step this year and NO COLA. I dont think we would be in this mess if we could offer our teachers what Littleton is offering theirs. Too bad, I always thought we were 'better off' than Littleton and managed our funds better. Guess not.

At this point I wouldn't trust Harkness if she told me the sky were blue!

Pt 1
Mluther-
Local Yous stated "The calculation is rather complex, but it's called (link below) a “Salary Comfort Index” which takes into account cost of living. Massachusetts teacher’s as a group r number 34 out of 50. "I went to the link and the web site called teacher's portal states that "the formula for computing Comfort Index is proprietary."
Can you use your superior negotiating skills and get the Comfort Index formula released?

Me- I never said I was superior, but better to be that than sarcastic. With two clicks of my mouse though here it is "The Comfort Score examined average salaries (both starting and overall) and compared that to the cost of living. We then ranked each state by this metric to find which states were friendliest to teacher's - from a salary perspective."

Cost of living is a very complex calculation which I'm sure they pay a lot of money to obtain. They aren't going to give it away. Also why you are associating me or my argument with politicians is bewildering.

pt2

MLuther - "Please answer these two questions. What is the average salary of teachers in Finland , Taiwan or South Korea?
What is the ranking of the US students in the PISA tests with respect to Finland, Taiwan or South Korea?
A logical person will come to the conclusion that Westford teachers are under performing and over paid."

Me - Those are both questions that if you really want the answer to you could probably dig them up.

If you want to compare wages, usually anything, the farther away you go the less relevant it becomes, depending on the type of data, it will usually be linear. There are also breaking points where data becomes very different and takes some heavy adjusting to bring it back. State lines, Country lines and Government lines are pretty good lines to keep with the data we are using. I compared Westford to the state, and the state to the country. If you want to do the calculations for all the different kinds of governments, (communist gov pay very differently than constitutional republics) cost of living, level of living etc feel free. The breaking point I chose is very reasonable and most importantly to me relevant.

Amber Brown - "You don't PARENT my children, you teach them. It would behoove you to stop marginalizing my much more significant role as a parent if you want to stop being expected to "parent" your students. I don't want you parenting them, I want you TEACHING them. A job I could do just as well at home (and have) without your master's degree."

Me - Amber, if you are talking about me (because of the statistics) please understand I'm not a teacher. Part of what you said I applaud, the problem is not all parents realize their role, the teacher's role & that intersection. Also, the teachers did not ask to have extra degrees mandated on them. My point in bringing up the degrees is that it automatically increases the pay requirement. That is just fact. I also feel it unnecessary.
The parenting part I feel you r wrong on. I guess it depends on how u define parenting but a lot of things teachers deal with, through all grades is behavior problems. Young kids do a lot of silly things that need to be corrected, peeing their pants, stealing, hitting, arguing, disobeying the teacher, talking during class, spitting, throwing things, asking "parent" type questions. I would chalk that up to parenting stuff, not educational, yet it needs to be addressed. Many kids have behavior charts that monitor them daily. It might not be something u want or that your kid ever requires, but your kid requires the teacher address it in order to continue their education. Thats just how it i

is. It's not a push and pull battle of teacher vs. parent. Some kids just require a lot of help with behavior, teachers don't get to just send them home. And they don't get to choose whether or not to do it as it affects the very well behaved children as well. Meaning they can't be teaching the children who are behaving at the moment when other kids are causing a disturbance. Behavior problems in general I think most people don't realize how much time and energy it takes up, before, during and after school. Managing 20 kids in an educational environment is not easy. I envy the summers off teachers have, but I don't think I could manage kids all day, the parent's of the children stuff at night and not die an early death or strangle someone myself. I've been managing people for work all my life and even 20 adults a lot....never mind kids. I think this is why they have summers off :^)

I wonder how long its going to be before high School coaches refuse to sign on for next year. I hope Dan T has a whole slew of backup coaches ready to 'call up' as well as new people who would be willing to run all those co curricular clubs that the NEASC so credited WA for running. I quite literally plan on 'taking my ball and going home' by finding another place to coach next year.
The town should be embarrassed at the likelihood of 150 WA teachers wearing bright yellow FAIR CONTRACT shirts to graduation this spring!

@Patrick, please take your ball and go home and good where your shirts for a fair contract...You will only embarass yourself and continue to give teachers the reputation they have as a very whiny part of our workforce and never happy!!! I bet if a survey was taken for a thousand people of all different careers most will say they are working for less, doing the job of 2 people because the company was cutting jobs, feel under appreciated, should be making more money......But they do not run around in yellow t-shirts throwing a temper tantrum!!!

@Local was I was under the impression it was not open enrollment but a perk of being a teacher in Westford is they had the choice to go to school here. That is how it was presented to me by a teacher who was doing this. But maybe they left out details. An area that could use some details on....... If it is not open enrollment it may not be in the hundreds but some significant dollars that could make a difference, could save a few teachers jobs!!!

Correct- may not be hundreds of kids....

Wow. I've just spent the better part of an hour reading this thread. It leaves a couple impressions.

First, there is a lot of passion about this topic...go figure, it mixes lots of strong emotional triggers: people's wallets/pocket books, a sense of "fairness", some envy, some enmity, and the concern for the youth. I'd say "our youth," but I don't live in town yet (maybe one day after I retire from the service). I guess that passion is good, it certainly stirs up debate, and it's important to keep people involved in this process. But passion is also dangerous, in that it begins to lock people into their opinions and can turn neighbor against neighbor, with people saying things they might not mean to say in a civil society where we theoretically all have to get along. I think I see that beginning here, with a number of comments that becoming more and more vitriolic and personally insulting. That's a shame.....it takes away from the strength of one's argument.

Second, I remain amazed at how many people seem to feel that teachers "have it easy" and shouldn't complain about their lot. It was this feeling that drove my wife away from teaching after 13 years of teaching primarily special ed. After giving up countless evenings and weekends to help develop IEPs, teach parenting classes, grade assignments, build bulletin boards, etc., to come in to my office and hear the guy next to me joke about how no teacher should complain, since they get a 2 month vacation....

.....it was too much for her. When we got back to the states (she was teaching in DOD schools at the time), she went back to school and changed career fields completely. Funny thing, after 2 years in school, she took her Master's of Science degree and got a job, entry level, that almost doubled her salary from teaching....with no weekends, no early arrivals to prep, no late nights to finish things up. That was an eye opener for her.

Third, given the comments I've seen here, in public, I'm amazed that Westford is able to attract the top level talent it appears to have. There are a lot of emotions flying about, and a lot of ugliness showing through. I don't think I would want to come in to a town where people think the way I've seen above...especially, as others have mentioned, when there are neighboring towns with significantly different situations as regards valuation of teachers.

Fourth, to address something that keeps coming up, teachers are free to vote with their feet. True...but that also implies that there are positions for those teachers to go to. It's a bit ingenous....on both sides...to suggest that 1, large numbers of teachers will be leaving, and 2, that unhappy teachers should just go where the conditions are better. Both arguments depend on there being jobs available for those teachers to go to....as case I doubt exists in more than a small number of cases. And of course, it's easy to sit in Westford and gripe about conditions......

....it's a whole other thing to call it a day, seek out and accept a new job elsewhere, and then go there and start over. Not to say it won't happen...probably will in some cases, but the threshold of pain has to be high enough to overcome all that hassle.

So, okay....four comments...I guess that's enough from me....someone else's turn.

And before the arrows start coming my way for commenting on a town issue when I don't even live there....I know. But I did grow up in Westford, benefit from the school system (WA '88), and have parents still living in town...where I visit regularly with my wife and son. I hope to move back to Westford some day, so I think I have some small ground to stand on when I offer my opinions.

Oh, and for the record, I generally don't like unions, though I see the benefit of them. I do value teachers and the very hard job the do...teaching AND parenting as needed. I do think the teachers should have a contract, though I don't know if all their demands are reasonable, or unreasonable.

In the end, I think the town gets what the town is willing to pay for. And the teachers get the contract they are willing to agree to. If it means some of them lose their jobs so others get a step increase, well I guess that's what the collective decided was best.

Good luck to you all.....and I hope you can all talk to each other after this is all over.

Andrew, when I opened up my E-mail Inbox, this morning, there were over 60+ E-mails from this WestfordPatch article (just from this weekend). Yikes!

Why are Posters being allowed to post more than one comment a day? Also, some of the Posters re-posted their Comments continously (repeatedly) and that is very aggrevating and inconsiderate since your Comments duplicated in all our E-mail boxes and there is no way of knowing this until we opened each individual E-mail.

Also, what is with the Part 1 through Part 5 postings, too? One Posting per day should be enough and hopefully succient for you to express your opinion.

Yes, I realize that this is a very interesting, heated, and important topic (and has elicited a lot of discussion), but a little brevity would be good.

Finally, why are you still allowing Poster's to use Monikers (i.e.: Local) or Initials (i.e.: LC) when we are required to use our full names. I can understand just using your First Name or your Last Name, but not the Monikers or your Initials.

I will not be requesting that I receive E-mail updates to this article, since I can't have my E-mail box filled up (and overwhelmed) and will follow the discussion separately on my own now!

If anyone would like to read the teachers' contract, it can be found here:

http://www.westfordk12.us/pages/hrm/contract.pdf

Julie, Thank you for clarifying the teachers children being able to attend Westford schools tuition free. I would say that is a huge perk and not sure of how many students there are but I bet it is quite a bit and a significant chunk of money.

So you do not know how many people are taking advantage of this "perk" yet you talk about the significant cost to the tax payer? The map shows Westford received 50-150 kids last year. If you want to keep talking about it you should find out how many of those kids were the child 1.) Of a teacher in Westford 2.) Were turned down by open enrollment 3.) Went w/o reimbursement from another town. That fact that they are tuition free does not mean they do not get reimbursent from the sending town. Teachers who live out of state would be the ones who would benefit but you don't even know how many it helps. The school district also gets to claim the child for state aid income.

You have no clue of the cost or how many people it affects.

Also, while looking through all the contracts I looked through, many towns will match teacher's contributions to a seperate retirement fund (not the pension) up to a certain amount, or they will contribute part of the required 11% of gross the teachers have to pay in to the pension (Westford teachers pay all of it) This is in addition to having non-resident child attendance policy similar to Westford in some areas. I invite you to compare the contracts (thank you to whoever provided that link) if you are interested in how they compare to other towns, just represent it accurately.

Westford has a reported 357 teachers. In 2007 MA averages are .88 children per family. Lets stipulate that every teacher in Westford is part of a "family" however they define that. Thats 315 kids.
1. How many are not residents of Westford
2. How many are school age
3. How many of what is left changed or enrolled into Westford schools?
4. How many of those kids went without tuition reimbursement from the sending town. Out of state teachers are the only ones we are sure would not be.

Keep in mind the turnover rate of Westford teachers is not high, so in general the subset of kids is pretty well established. It also requires that the teacher wants to change the school and as the child gets older that the child wants to as well. Also, tuition reimbursement per child is $5k per year under school choice program, so lets assume that on the losses it's $5k. And lastly Westford is home to Nashoba Valley Voc which is more heavily applied to than a regular school and is open for such, and most likely bears the brunt of that 50-150 figure of accepted kids. At this point all kids from Chelmsford, Groton, Pepperell, Littleton, Shirley and Townsend would be considered "In District" so you would lose from your figuring the Children of Westford school teachers who reside in these towns and attend Nashoba Tech.

P.S. Links to all Teachers Contracts

http://educatorcontracts.doemass.org/contents.aspx

Angela,
Whoever told you that all the unions agreed to this was misleading you, that is NOT the case. Jodi (town manager) and the selectmen are shifting the cost to the employees. The premium does go down slighty, however the co-pays will increase significantly. Westford employees already pay more for their health than any other town around them.

Vincent, I am very familiar with what is going on in the private sector as I have spent my entire career there. I'm sorry if big blue does not offer a family package - my corporation does. In fact every corporation I have worked for in the past 10 years does. But this was not the point of my initial statement. My argument was that low co-pays do not tell the entire story. So to have people spout off about Westford employees paying lower co-pays than the private sector and therefore are receiving some huge benefit is irresponsible. You have to consider all factors, not just the ones that support your argument. Simply compare any of the plans (Employee, Family) to the comparable plans in the private sector and you may find that the premiums in Westford are higher. They certainly are in my case.

Follow this link to see the Town of Westford Health Insurance Rates:
http://www.westfordma.gov/pages/government/towndepartments/WestfordMA_humanresources/documents/11-12%20Westford%20Health%20&%20Dental%20Insurance%20Rates.pdf

and a summary of what is covered under the Tufts Health Plans here:
http://www.westfordma.gov/pages/government/towndepartments/WestfordMA_humanresources/documents/Town%20of%20Westford%20-%20Benefit%20Comparison%20Summary.pdf

Easy enough to do a comparison compared to your own coverage. In my case, my family's premiums are lower but my out-of-pocket expenses are much higher. Obviously, the total cost depends on what health care services a family requires.

I don't have all the details of the contracts and negotiations to date so I am not commenting on that. For those of us with only what we are seeing in flyers, newspaper articles and the Patch we don't have the entire story. I can say from my perspective that as a whole Westford's teachers are a group of talented, dedicated individuals who are willing to go the extra mile to challenge our students to realize their potential. Have I run into some Westford teachers who were not as good as the others? Absolutely - just as there are in every other profession and industry. Yes the teachers get the summers off. However that is taken into account with their salaries. Many teachers work summer jobs or part time jobs during the year to supplement their income. In addition many teachers buy classroom supplies out of their personal money to provide an environment conducive to learning. Look at comparable positions in other industries with similar education requirements. The salaries are not comparable. Yet these are the people who in partnership with the parents are teaching our future teachers, policemen, engineers, architects, mechanics, doctors and lawyers. I hope that this situation can be brought to a swift resolution balancing what is best for our students, our town and yes, our teachers. And no, I am not an educator but I do have respect for those who have chosen to do so.

As a Westford Resident and teacher in a neighboring town I can tell you I would be just as insulted as the teachers here if my previously negotiated steps were not honored. Its hard to explain to non teachers but these are 99% of the time (this seems to be the 1% because I had never heard of not honoring them before) an automatic. A cost of living increase is always up in the air and open to negotiation but I can say that TEACHERS in neighboring towns are looking at Westford with shock that this part of a contract was not honored here.
I cant think of a group of teachers who would lay down to be treated this way. Again people outside education only see 'raise' but this is specific 'raise' is SOP in the first dozen years on the job. After that new teachers are brought up to a competitive pay and no more steps. I support our teachers here in town and imagine this is going to go long and only get more ugly as I cant see teachers ever ratifying such an 'offer' from our town.

Tea Party movement is sweeping into town and Jody and Angela are just the kind of people we need in charge right now. They are very Michelle Bachman like which I greatly admire!

Rich, numbers copy and pasted from mluther in another thread. I believe this provides a more complete picture, though it is still steps only.

Step FY2008 FY 2009 FY 2010 FY2011 3 Yr % Inc
1 $48,180 $50,767 $53,493 $56,382 17.02%
2 $49,490 $52,112 $54,873 $57,800 16.79%
3 $50,800 $53,457 $56,253 $59,216 16.57%
4 $52,110 $54,801 $57,631 $62,266 19.49%
5 $52,015 $56,143 $60,599 $64,136 23.30%
6 $55,834 $59,035 $62,420 $66,007 18.22%
7 $57,558 $60,808 $64,241 $67,878 17.93%
8 $59,286 $62,582 $66,061 $69,749 17.65%
9 $61,013 $64,356 $67,882 $73,031 19.70%
10 $61,527 $66,130 $71,077 $74,938 21.80%
11 $65,738 $69,242 $72,933 $76,847 16.90%
12 $67,497 $71,050 $74,790 $78,812 16.76%
13 $70,978 $72,859 $74,790 $78,812 11.04%
14 $72,794 $74,723 $76,703 $78,812 8.27%

MLUTHER, I mean no offense, but I can't figure out if your comments here and on the BOS Letter discussion are meant seriously, sarcastically, or tongue-in-cheek. Please help me to decipher your actual stand on the topic of teacher salaries/contract and town finances. Thanks!----Derek

Hi all, just deleted a few more comments with individuals calling others "a bad sardine" and a Spanish swear word.

This level of discussion is great, but the terms of service do not allow name calling. If the user would like to repost their comments, minus the name calling, that would be great.

And if I miss any here, let me know, I'll get to them as soon as I can.

I am glad good red blooded conservative Tea Party loving folks are in charge here in westford like Jodi Ross and Angela Harkness that are willing to go after liberals and unions. Teachers should be lucky they have a job in Westford and take whatever crumbs we are willing to throw them. We like to get a real value for our dollar here in westford and if we have to walk over the backs of the little guys who work for the town that so be it!
Do these teachers think the town is going to offer them anything next year when they negotiate contract again even if this is settled? Its going to be the same HOLD on STEP in year one all over again so better get used to it. We dont care about all those 'extras' you supposedly provide so work to rule to your hearts content and see if we care. Dont write letters of recommendation as there are too many kids in those liberal colleges anyway

Also I think we should lay off the custodial staff and have teachers do the cleaning of their buildings between classes to save money...If we have to settle for 2nd rate teachers this is a small price to pay to clean house of those educated fancy book learning type educators the town has now

Great, I would like the students AND teachers cleaning toilets and sinks as well. It doesnt save us real money unless we can reduce janitorial staff. (Unless we have the Janitors teach in the schools as they probably come cheaper and are just as good when it comes to playing movies and puzzles. A real inclusion model if I ever saw it