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Is Town Hall Big Enough For Tonight's Discussion on The Firearms Warrant Article?

There's plenty on the Selectmen's docket tonight, but we're expecting a big crowd for one item in particular, and we want your take on whether there's enough room.

 

A discussion on last year's warrant articles for Spring Town Meeting was so packed that many observers were forced to stand outside in the hallway. Will tonight be a repeat with the large crowd expected for tonight's discussion on the firearms ban warrant article?

Since Patch first reported on this story over a month ago, the topic has spread to media outlets across the state, with a packed house of those wishing to discuss the article the last time it came before the Selectmen's attention as well.

Tonight's meeting also has a wide array of other items on the warrant as well as a presentation by State Representative Jim Arciero and State Senator Eileen Donoghue on the Fiscal Year '14 state budget, an update on the potential Fiscal Year '14 town budget voters will deliberate upon at Town Meeting, information on the possible demolition of Parents' Market, a conservation restriction at Nashoba Valley Ski Area and more.

Will you be there? Can the Town Hall Conference Room fit everyone that wants to be there? How many people will be watching the meeting on Westford CAT?

We'll bring you a recap of what happens tonight, but in the meantime, what do you think will happen?

Tell us in the comments.

Related Topics: Board Of Selectmen and Town Meeting

Ghost

6:07 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Westford used the be quite a place to live but now it's step on our 2nd Amendment rights, drugs all up in the WA, Teachers morale is awful, Sprawl growing out of control, what a mess! Seems like cleaning house of town officials is overdue!

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Ellen Harde

7:29 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Nomination papers are available now at the Town Clerk's office for anyone wanting to run for town office in the elections this spring (late April or early May). There will be elections for Board of Selectmen, Planning Board, Library Trustees, Housing Authority, School Committee and Board of Health.
Ellen Harde

Mary Giurleo

7:39 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I wish everyone would comment using their real first and last names, rather than ranting away with user names like "Ghost." Thank you Ellen Harde for all you've done to make Westford a great place to live!

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R Gagnon

8:23 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I happen to agree with his post no matter who he is. While the information about where to pick up nomination papers is appreciated, the need to clean house is all inclusive in my opinion.

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Amber B.

3:11 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Agreed. And some do not use full names because they are town employees and may fear retaliation by co-workers or bosses.

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Andrew Sylvia

8:03 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Hi Cynthia,

The agenda is attached above.

June McMorrow

8:10 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

7:30 p.m second floor meeting room of Westford Town Hall

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Steven Sadowski

8:20 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I'll be there, and I will also be on the ballot for Selectman. I don't care if I have to wait out in the parking lot (assuming I can even find a spot). Whether you are pro gun, anti gun, or ambivalent, this town cannot afford an expensive lawsuit that will strain our budget, nor do we want to be ground zero for such a volatile issue.

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Dan D.

8:31 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Glad your running! Wish I could be there tonight to meet you. As predicted, this nutty bylaw has deflected time and attention from real issues in the town. I hope you win!

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KSimons

9:04 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

K. Simons
I will say up front I am pro gun if it means that I have the right to own and carry when I feel the need. I have been a resident of Westford for over 32 years now and have seen a lot of changes needless to say. But I can see this articular if it gets to town meeting and even happens to pass would cost this town more money than you could imagine in law suits alone. Between the NRA, GOAL and every other pro gun group out there lining up to sue the town within the first year will be staggering. The two shooting clubs in town will close there is no question about that as most shot guns would be illegal in town if it passes never mind most twenty two's. It's time to be realistic and just enforce the laws we have and not try and right new ones. Do you really think that a town ordnance like this will change how criminal think when they cross the town line????

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Margo

9:32 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

K. Simons I totaly agree with you. We need to enforce the gun laws we have and also be more diligent in who we let purchase guns. It's not so much the guns that are the problem it's the people that buy them. This town I'm sure has other issues that need to be addressed more importantly then a gun ban.

Karen

9:04 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I'll be there as well. I'll park in Forge if needed.

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Lauren Horton

9:45 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Westford CAT has posted two videos on this issue, one for and one against. You can watch them by following this link: http://westfordcat.pegcentral.com/index.php.
Also, there is a monitor right outside the Town Hall Meeting Room so that people who can't get a seat in the meeting room can watch and listen to the meeting from the hallway and also come inside, approach the audience microphone, and make a comment when needed.
Lauren Horton, General Manager
Westford CAT

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KSimons

10:01 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Can you tell me what channel Westford CAT is on for Verizon?

Jim Jarvie

9:53 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I plan on attending tonight and am also running for a seat on the board. Like many of you, I oppose this bylaw. I believe the residents of Westford would be better served if this board were to remove the bylaw distraction and focus its attention and limited resources on solving the immediate fiscal challenges facing our town, discussing creative and innovative ways to generate new streams of revenue so we can continue making investments in education and infrastructure. There are two seats open in May. Now is the time to make a change. We can do better!

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Steven Sadowski

10:13 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Jim:
We'll have quite a fight on our hands as Jeffries, despite his activism, is very popular. But wasn't it Burke who said, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing?" Not calling, or insinuating Jeffires, "evil," but the point still holds, we have to do something, we have to act, not just complain, or protest, so I'm glad to be on the ballot with you this election. Any help you need, let me know.
Steve

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Jim Jarvie

10:39 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Steve, I agree it won't be easy but I believe folks want change. This year the voters will have a choice, which is half the battle. Looking forward to running with you and meeting you tonight. And if there is anything I can do, please let me know.

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Amber B.

3:13 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

A long overdue choice, if you ask me. Thank you to both of you for throwing your hats into the ring.

Lauren Horton

10:39 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Live television coverage of tonight's Board of Selectmen Meeting will begin at 7:30 p.m. on Government Access Channels Verizon 34 and Comcast 9 and 84-3.
Lauren Horton, General Manager
Westford CAT

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jmcgruff

10:41 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Jim and Steve, best of luck!
I welcome the change (even though I am moving to NH). It will be good to know there will be a chance for no more sidewalks to NOwhere (Boston Rd to 495, never used), soccer fields with NO driveway (Nutting Rd) or 6 million dollar Senior center 'renovations' (when 1 and 2 million dollar plans were voted down!?). Westford is a nice town, but there is seems to be 'it's my way or the highway' mentality on the current board (E Boston camps anyone?)...so that said, Route 3 here I come! Good grief & good luck!

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Jim Jarvie

10:49 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

jmmcgruff, thank you for your support! Sorry to see you go but best of luck to you and good luck on your move.

jmcgruff

10:54 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

KSimon, if the shooting clubs closed we could have 'Free' Winter and Spring Festivals like they do at the now Privatized East Boston Camps! Hooray!
I am pro gun by the way. Massachusetts is by far the most restrictive state to carry a gun in already. As it should be.

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Jean Shaw

12:03 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

jshaw - As a 37 year resident of Westford I am appalled that the town should be involved in trying to usurp the 2nd amendment rights of the residents, I applaud those stepping forward to challenge this , if the town is to spend tax monies on such frivolity I would suggest they institute a program to educate residents on the safe handling of firearms and not the banning of them.

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Kate Hollister

12:07 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Did everyone pay attention to what Bob Jefferies said as to why he proposed the warrant article? To paraphrase: He was tired on all the empty nothing-gets-resolved rhetoric at the national level about guns, safety, what do we as a nation feel is an appropriate compromise, etc. So he decided to start a grass roots discussion. Well - he's started a furor, but I don't see a discussion in the above rants. How would YOU propose reducing the number of school & other shootings? What is causing the endemic? How do we mitigate/lessen/resolve it? What is a good balance between our right to hunt (which I condone), skeet, and other recreational firearm activities versus our right to live safely and to NOT have to carry a concealed weapon because "you just don't know about the other guys"?
[end part 1]

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Dan D.

12:49 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

How about some real data for a change? Is there an "endemic"? Is there evidence that such a ban actually has any effect on violent crime? I have not heard or seen any data that supports the latter. Not from Jefferies, not from anyone. Just emotional rants. If he wanted to get attention, he sure succeeded.

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Amber B.

3:18 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Kate, I disagree. You don't start a "discussion" by throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And someone who puts time and energy into backing this by participating in a televised local debate expressing his very clear anti-gun views is NOT interested solely in "discourse". He can spend his own money on hosting a public discussion in some other venue instead of wasting tax dollars sucking up our town counsel's retainer on this issue that is "just a discussion".

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Tammy

4:47 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Kate I could not disagree with you more, This is NOT about keeping our kids safe in school this is about trying to disarm legal law abiding citizens, don't let them pull on your emotional strings by trying to say it will make our schools safe.... Jefferies put forth an agenda to take away MY RIGHT to protect my life and limit the choices of how I do so based on his beliefs and NOT Facts... If he wanted to start a discussion he should have started a discussion NOT jumped the gun and put an issue such as this to a VOTE! It was unfair and one sided attack on people who happen to feel strong about their 2nd Amendment Right!

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Protagoras

8:11 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013

I hope your reference to Selectman Jefferies proposed Article was tongue-in-cheek when you are insinuating that it would be start a grass roots discussion? Mr. Jefferies has the right to say and propose as he wishes, but as an elected official of this town it was a disservice to the town. Read the Article carefully, it was cobbled together quickly and has no legal basis to support Federal judicial review. Read Heller and MacDonald and you will find evidence that this would clearly have lost at the Federal level. The end result, would be only a huge legal bill for the town.
As I've stated in a previous post, the genesis of this Article by Mr. Jefferies can be found in a dislike or bias towards firearms. Again, as I stated in my previous post, I believe more contributing causes to these events is the dismal state of mental health services and laws as well as the preponderance and extensiveness of realistic violent movies, tv shows and video games. The 2 Colorado events as well as the West Virginia event can be viewed as caused by individuals with psychotic behavior. Lack of proper recognition and treatment led to these individuals carrying out this horrific acts.
How do we mitigate/lessen this? Start by looking at this rather than using these events as a rallying call to ban firearms.

Kate Hollister

12:08 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

[start part 2]
Personally, I do not like that our country is heading back to a Wild West mentality, where you "need" to carry a weapon. Where, too, is the need for firearms with such large ammo capability that shooting a bunch of people is a quick no-thought process? Is there a ripple effect – more people carry concealed weapons because more people carry concealed weapons?

How do we, as a society, deal with irresponsible gun owners who feel they do not have to train their children on proper gun use and respect, nor feel the need to keep their firearms from their children who do not have the maturity to control their impulses or understand the difference between real life and their video games?

These are the kinds of discussion we should be having. Not knee-jerk "they're out to get me" polemics. Or, are you saying that our country is in such dire shape that we need another civil war, hence the need for any and all types of firearms and sundry weapons?

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Steven Sadowski

12:48 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Kate:

Part1;
I did see Mr. Jeffries 30 minute interview. He made a number of errors. First, he cited that the 2nd Amendment has two parts and that half of it is being ignored, “the maintenance of a well regulated militia.” In his mind, Mr. Jeffries feels that if you want to own a gun you should also be part of a militia. This is a common meme that is disseminated across left wing blogs and on college campuses. But there is equal (if not more) evidence to support individual right to bear arms. For example, George Mason, the co-author of the Second Amendment during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution in 1788 was quoted as saying, “I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

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Steven Sadowski

12:49 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Part 2:
Whatever side you come down on, one has to understand that this is a highly contested issue and since there is so much ambiguity, there will be lengthy and expensive litigation that will cost the town of Westford precious dollars. But Mr. Jeffries fails to understand that if you want to train firearms owners in marksmanship and training, there is no better place than a gun club. His bylaw would jeopardize the Westford Sportsman Club and expose their 200 acres to development. Once again, Mr. Jeffries is being feckless and irresponsible.

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Steven Sadowski

12:49 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Part 3:
As a libertarian, the worst thing any community can have is an activist who tries to remake the town with his vision. Most people are too busy to tune in to the every day minutiae of the town. They just need the garbage picked up, the potholes filled, the schools safe and excellent, and the taxes as low as possible. They trust that the volunteers that sacrifice their time and energy to give the town a working government will just be as unobtrusive and drama-free as possible. Mr. Jeffries put Westford on the map over his own intellectual theories concerning Constitutional law and civil liberties. Would all of his supporters not be as angry if this was a ban on free speech, or women’s reproductive rights?

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Steven Sadowski

12:50 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Part4;
Lastly, what we need on the board are people who come to serve—not to engineer society to their liking. And when they’ve finished their term, go back to their lives and allow someone else to volunteer to hear the minutes, decide what color to paint the light posts and vote on the budget. Trying to hijack the board to fulfill some pacifist fantasy hurts the town, makes us a laughing stock (the progressives in Concord can sigh of relief as they are finally off the front page), and exposes us to expensive litigation. I intend to fight and defeat any attempt to curtail our liberties if elected to the Board.

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Vincent DiRico

2:48 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Yes I bet most did "pay attention" and to be clear came to the conclusion that Bob Jefferies (the whole BOS) knees jerked first!

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Raoul Duke

5:53 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Kate, how are we "heading back to something" which has existed since 1791? I have but one question for you: when you see Syrian rebels with guns fighting for against dictatorship for their democracy and rights, what do you think? Do you believe the guns should be taken away by Assad and the Syrian government? Because that is what you are basically proposing for U.S. citizens. Our country is the greatest in the world, with a healthy respect for freedom, rights and tolerance. However, the threat of tyranny has never and will never go away, so that is why our Framers so intelligently added a right, the 2nd Amendment, that allows citizens to own firearms that are as technologically advanced as those owned by the very government that could infringe upon those rights. It does not create a Wild West mentality but should give us peace of mind about democracy and freedom lasting forever. The biggest thing we should actually worry about is citizens like you willing to give up the very rights we fought and died for some 240 years ago.

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Anne Shirley

5:59 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Kate, I'm in the minority on these comments in that I agree with a lot of what you're saying. However, I don't think this is something that should be done at the local level. Stricter gun legislation is already being discussed at the state and national level. Does anyone know if the town actually paid town counsel to give the opinion that these by-laws will be challenged? Not a good use of taxpayer money IMO and the town has bigger financial concerns to worry about.

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Amber B.

10:05 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Anne: As I understand it, the BoS used up 6 hours of Town Counsel's retainer. They say they "didn't spend any money", but the reality is that a retainer was paid up front and they just dipped into it at some godawful hourly rate to push this agenda, and that's money which now can't be used for things currently in ongoing litigation. That's some pretty expensive ink on paper if you ask me - the rest is just semantics.

Hugh MacDonald

12:46 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

My wife and I will be there. As a father of 3 young children that are, or will be, attending Westford public schools, I would hate to see this pass for several reasons.
1.) Putting firearms restrictions on the good guys would put my family at risk, by definition, criminals do not follow the laws, so the laws would do nothing to deter them.
2.) Do we want to be known as the town with the tightest firearm restrictions on its citizens (potential victims), sounds like it would make our town a pretty good target for those that want to commit crimes or do harm against us or our children.
3.) Does anyone think that in the unfortunate event that this was implemented that it would be supported by the AG? In the unfortunate event that it was supported by the AG, do you think this would not be not be legally challenged?, costing the taxpayers of Westford for the fight. Do you think this by-law could withstand such a legal challenge? I think not, let's not waste any more time or money on this.
4.) If a law abiding citizens from outside Westford, does not want to follow these laws, they will simply take their business elsewhere.
5.) We already have some of the toughest gun laws in the country. The federal and state laws are very confusing and changes are currently being proposed at both levels. To quote Mr. Jeffries in the Globe: "It’s very confusing, given how many contradictory laws there are on it", now how can the solution be to create yet a different law at the local level.

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Hugh MacDonald

1:00 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

....continued
6.) If you take the time to understand firearms, the current laws, and the prosed by-law and ask you self "Will this make anyone in the town of Westford safer?" the only conclusion that you can come to is no, this will not make anyone safer, it will only serve to restrict law-abiding citizens.
7.)The constitution.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Regarding the horrific recent school shootings, I think we are all on the same page that this was a horrific tradgedy, but do you really think any gun laws would have stopped them? To Quote the vice president "Nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down to 1,000 a year from what it is now,"

We should focus on what might actually work, invest in mental health and investigate any physical or procedural security changes that need to made at our schools.
Let's not act on emotion Westford, let's do the right thing.

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Jeff Rosenberger

1:14 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I'm all for having a conversation about how we can improve safety in town. However, Bob Jefferies started the 'conversation' by trying to ban my lawfully owned property and take away the tools I use to protect my own safety.

Taking away the firearms from the law abiding will do nothing to deter criminals. Is someone intent on murder going to care about a $100 fine?

While the murders at Sandy Hook Elementary were a horrific crime, school murders are not actually rising. http://www.ktvz.com/news/Study-School-shooting-deaths-down-from-past/-/413192/17792282/-/l2dwr6z/-/index.html Far more children are killed by drunk drivers. Would you suggest banning alcohol in an attempt to reduce them?

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Eric Piper

2:23 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

My wife and I hope to attend tonight's town meeting, and we are very encouraged by the proposed by-law. As new parents, we were horrified by what the tragedy at Newtown, CT. Limiting the lethal capacity of guns may not prevent these events from occurring, but it can reduce the number of deaths and devastated families.

The second amendment does protect the right to own weapons, but it also calls for a regulated militia - which I understand to be the national guard. Nor is the right absolute: just as the first amendment doesn't give anyone the freedom to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, the second amendment doesn't mean that an individual can own a grenade launcher or a gun that can kill thirty people in just a few minutes. In my opinion, the bylaw is sensible and similar to speed limits on highways in making our town a safer place.

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Steven Sadowski

2:48 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Eric:
Here's the issue with the bylaw for those people who think as you do and for people who think as I do: the 2nd Amendment is ambiguous. Both sides can claim to have known the intent of our Founding Fathers but in the end they (FF) did not specify exactly where a militia begins and an individual right to bear arms ends. Given that, with so much wiggle room for judges to decide, do you want this town to be the Petri dish for a lawsuit? Since this ban will do nothing to make the schools safer, this is obviously not about safety, but Mr. Jeffries' attempt to make Westford ground zero for some sort of grassroots activism, which is fine, but he should just say it,"I want to drag Westford into a lengthy and expensive civil liberties lawsuit to foster a national gun ban." If he'd admit that, we could all vote to go into this, or not go into this, honestly.

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Amber B.

3:23 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

If "Gun Free Zones" or Gun Free Towns made kids safe, those killings in Newtown would never have occurred. Because by law ALL schools are already "Gun Free Zones".

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Dan D.

3:36 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Everyone is horrified. There is no logical conclusion that limited magazine capacity would have limited the carnage. It's one of those "but it makes sense" things that fall apart the more you know about it. A six shooter can be reloaded in under 3 seconds, for instance. A mix of some fertilizer and fuel oil can result in a worse nightmare than using firearms. I would think that a much more useful discussion about preventing monsters from carrying out their horror would focus on stopping them, not their choice of instruments.

Baggot

3:01 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Westford, No money for teachers but money for grass roots activism to make a political point which by BJ own admission is likely to get tossed out later anyway. GO WESTFORD, you really understand how to prioritize during tough economic times, said nobody!

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Eric Piper

3:40 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Steven, I agree that the second amendment is ambiguous, and I certainly don't want the town to suffer through a long legal battle. However, I'm not sure the bylaw actually commits us to this: any law the town passes opens us up to a lawsuit, and as a town we can decide how far we want to pursue the issue in court. In the meantime, the bylaw should be decided on its merits and not because of what amounts to legal bullying. I do think that limiting guns' capacity to kill will increase school safety and that fostering dialogue is a part of the democratic experiment.

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Amber B.

3:43 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Eric, it sounds as though you have not read the proposed bylaw, nor fully understand the ramifications of it.

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Dan D.

4:01 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Do you have any data to support your belief that this will increase the safety of the schools? Or is it just "well, it makes sense"? It usually helps to find facts and THEN construct a possible solution. How many laws do you think there are that were passed because "well, it makes sense" only to find that the law has no bearing on the desired outcome? Check this out: http://www.nationalaffairs.com/public_interest/detail/second-thoughts-about-gun-control.

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Raoul Duke

5:44 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Eric, with all due respect, it is ignorance that puts us in a more unsafe situation. The 2nd is not that ambiguous. First, a militia are individuals, not any government body like the National Guard (see Heller case for legal ruling). Second, why would a criminal or insane person follow this law? They wouldn't, so there goes the added "safety". Finally, what would you propose someone does under attack by 3 individuals with semi-auto firearms? The 2nd provides my family wanted protection and that is the entire purpose of creating rights which no popular vote should be able to take away.

Steven Sadowski

3:50 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Eric:
We are already in the hole as a town the money for our lawyer to write his opinion, which was in short, that this bylaw will not survive a challenge. This is what we pay a lawyer for: to give us advice before costing the taxpayers any more money. But BJ is ignoring advise from counsel. How much money is enough for you? Are you willing to tell the schools, fire dept. police, etc. that we don't have money because we just blew it on grassroots activism?
2nd, there are dozens of issues besides the legal issue, but I've already written what seems like treatises today!

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Ghost

4:14 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I am glad to read this is how the Selectmen and Town Officias see fit to spend residents hard earned tax dollars ONLY NOW do I fully understand why the Great Recession hit Westford disproportionately hard and money trees are nowhere to be found for Police, Fire, and Teacher far contracts!

WHAT A DISCRACE!

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Andrew Sylvia

4:42 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Hi all,

Just wanted to clarify something I forgot to mention here. Since it's a citizen's petitioned warrant article, the BoS can't take it off the warrant.

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Kirk FitzPatrick

4:59 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

In the draft warrant on the Town of Westford web site it is listed as being put forth by the Board of Selectmen, not citizen petition.

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Vincent DiRico

5:12 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

ARTICLE 30:
Amend Chapter 95 Firearms by Adding a New Section
Board of Selectmen

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CCR

5:36 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I believe the current Article 30 is Jeffries own. I was told he knows now that he can be sued personally over this, so he has a duplicate of his article submitted by a citizen's petition 'written' by another town citizen. The citizen who has submitted this believes this is about 'weapons of mass destruction'.

Tonight, Jeffries can open the warrant, remove his Article 30, add the citizen's petition, and allow the focus to go now to the citizen's petition, not him. But the town will still be sued. Just not him.

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Andrew Sylvia

6:22 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Sorry for the confusion guys, I learned at the last minute that there was a citizen's petition that is basically the same thing that's not up there on the town website yet. They'll be talking about it more tonight, and we'll have the full story tomorrow. I'm here at Town Hall already, just to make sure I've got a seat for this thing.

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Amber B.

10:14 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

CCR: Yeah, someone probably wet his pants when "ultra vires" started getting bandied about. Thus, the current underhanded political maneuvering to present it as a citizen's petition to protect someone's backside, bank account, and house.

It's a much different ballgame when it's your OWN money at risk and not a pool of taxpayer funds, isn't it?

Sam

4:51 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Perfect description. A disgrace. It wont take many votes to remove these two from the BOS. 400 votes can win. We need change and we have two candidates that are interested in providing just that. Can they be any worse than these two? (No offense to the new candidates) Get out and vote!

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Raoul Duke

6:02 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

The only good part of Article 30 is that a beast has been awakened in town. Formerly quiet residents will no longer be placated. Vote for freedom and liberty to be brought back to Westford!

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Jim Jarvie

9:06 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

No offense taken, Sam. :-)
I'll need all the support I can get if we are to unseat the two incumbents.

Ghost

6:59 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Well we are looking to remove Jefferies can we channel some if that drive for CHANGE over to the lame as a duck School Committee and find a way to show Angela Harkness and David Keele the exit door ASAP as well!

Clean house is in order folks!

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westford resident

7:03 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

I hope those in favor of this article take several minutes to educate themselves on the current gun laws of Massachusetts to understand that MA has some of the most restrictive laws in the country. To obtain a license, you are required to: 1) take a firearms safety course, 2) get photographed and fingerprinted, submitted for a background check, and interviewed by a Police Officer.

In addition, all guns are REQUIRED to be stored in a locked case or be fitted with a trigger lock. Anyone that doesn't store a gun in this way is already breaking the law.

Anne Shirley makes a good point above. This is not something that should be handled on a local level. The State and Federal Government should be making and amending the gun laws.

See http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/gun-laws/

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Andrew Sylvia

7:19 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Currently here, about 10 minutes until the meeting, and it's already flowing over capacity. We'll have the story up ASAP tonight.

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Jeff Rosenberger

7:55 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

The answer to the articles question seems to be no. WFD members have gone through counting people in the building and i just heard that they stopped letting people in.

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Raoul Duke

8:04 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

The Board has essentially tossed out all pro2A citizens from the meeting tonight. I understand fire codes but it seems as though the powers that be in town are attempting to now squash free speech also. My question is will Bob Jefferies show up for the newly scheduled Board meeting about firearms?

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Sam

8:54 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

The threshold for TM warrants is way to low. 12 people sign something and we all have to jump through hoops for it. To top it off these 12 get the straw hats involved and boom it easily passes at TM. What a great system. If this goes to vote it gets blown out of the water.

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June McMorrow

10:09 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

No, Town Hall was not big enough for tonight's BOS meeting. They should hold this at the Abbott. I think I was at the Abbott several years ago for a PB meeting when we were trying to keep that darn Asphalt Plant out of our community.

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KSimons

7:53 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Not standing up for the BOS but in order for the meeting to be move there just was not enough time. Notifications have to be made in a legal way with news paper postings and have to be made within so many days. They had no idea what was coming and the fire dept did the right thing. This is a public safety issue. Now with more time and a bigger venue I have a feeling there will be a bigger turn out next week. I wonder if there could, or should be a citizens petition to remove the question before a vote on town meeting floor? Time for change

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Sue W

8:24 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

I also agree that gun control should be handled at the state and federal level. But for those of you who think that "guns don't kill people", consider this excerpt from a Jan 15th Time magazine article:

"Gun violence is a big enough problem in the U.S. that it’s actually become one factor driving down Americans’ life expectancy. A new report from the National Research Council and the Institute of Medicine lists the the United States, with six violent deaths per 100,000 people, as the most violent wealthy nation in the world in its survey.

It also has the highest rate of firearm ownership, with 89 civilian-owned firearms for every 100 Americans. The runner-up doesn’t even come close: Finland, which has less than five percent of the world’s population, has fewer than two violent deaths per 100,000 people.

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/15/the-nations-first-gun-appreciation-day-is-coming-at-a-bad-time/#ixzz2Kmi6tO3g

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Steven Sadowski

8:40 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Sue:
You have created a strawman argument. The quote "guns don't kill people" does not mean that a gun "can't" kill. Of course a gun "can" kill. That's what they are primarily designed for, but the quote in its entirety reads, "...people kill people." The problem with statistics is that they can be cherry picked to bolster an argument. We do have too many shootings in America but they mostly occur in the inner cities with the strictest gun laws. In the rural areas where gun ownership ratio is higher per person, they have the lowest gun crime/murders. We don't have a gun problem, we have a mental health problem.

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Jim Jarvie

9:16 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Well said, Steve! I would also like to add that Westford doesn't have an assault weapons problem. Westford has a revenue problem. Maybe it's easier for Mr. Jefferies to rally the Selectmen around restricting our freedoms than it is to find solutions to the many challenges that face our town. As your next Selectman, I will work hard and oppose any effort to further infringe on the rights of lawful gun owners - that's a promise!

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Vincent DiRico

9:20 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

JJ: "Westford has a revenue problem"

really? does that mean you will lead the charge for a 2.5 override?

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Jim Jarvie

9:34 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Vincent, as a procurement professional for almost 20 years, I am not confident the board has done all they can do to ensure we are running government as efficiently as possible. First thing I would do is propose a financial review by the MA DOR. For over 25 years, the Department of Revenue's Division of Local Services (DLS) has been a significant resource for local officials on matters of municipal finance, technology and government structure. This is a free service provided by the DOR and at the end of the review, the BoS will get a report with recommendations on how we can operate more efficiently and effectively, improve budget and capital planning procedures and analyze school finance just to name a few. I think this is a great first step in ensuring we are spending wisely. So no, I am not in favor of a 2.5 override and will oppose any effort to throw this on the backs of the taxpayer.

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Mike

9:37 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Steven, one correction: You said, "We do have too many shootings in America but they mostly occur in the inner cities with the strictest gun laws. In the rural areas where gun ownership ratio is higher per person, they have the lowest gun crime/murders."

That's just flat wrong, and is only remotely true if you skew the raw numbers to ignore the fact that there are fewer people in rural areas, so of course there would be fewer deaths. In reality, gun deaths per capita are actually higher in states with fewer gun laws, many of them in the south and midwest. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/

While there are definite murder hotspots, Chicago being a prime example, you're still more likely to die from a gun in rural Louisiana than in Boston.

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Steven Sadowski

1:16 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Mike:
As a mathematics major I have to disagree with your statistical analysis. There are more gun deaths in Chicago, Boston, L.A. et. al. than rural areas. This cannot be refuted and these places have the strictest gun laws, which also cannot be refuted. So what is a pro-gun restriction person to do when faced with this dilemma? Well, one way is to dissect the statistics per capita to make the argument that one has a better chance of getting shot in backwater Mississippi than the corner of 4th and Main. The problem with this skew is that it can be inverted to defeat the initial argument. In other words, not everyone in the city owns a gun. In fact when you subtract law enforcement/security, very few people own guns. So now your sample REALLY becomes contaminated. Conversely, one person in a rural area may own several guns, maybe even a whole safe full! So if you want to play the per capita game, you can, but it is a weak argument since it does not account for the aggregate number of guns per household in relation to the population and crime stats. In other words, if you have 2 people in your house, and 1 person went to the hospital last year, 50% of your population is accident-prone! What is that line…there are liars, damned liars and statistics?

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Mike

1:59 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Steven, you're confounding correlation and causation. Most of the cities you mention have tougher gun laws because they have more crime, not the other way around. Inverting the relationship is a fairly common -- and discredited -- NRA-pushed talking point. (And totally ignores that New York City's tough gun laws have helped contribute to a steady decrease in violent gun-related crime...)

But there have been multiple studies that demonstrate that in states and regions where there is more gun ownership -- even controlling for urbanization and poverty -- there are more gun deaths. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447364/

States with higher levels of household gun ownership -- many of them the places with the gun-filled safes you mention -- had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17070975

These studies were conducted by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center -- http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/ -- before the NRA lobbied successfully to defund research to the center, as well as to the CDC's Injury Prevention Center.

All that said....Westford doesn't need a NYC-style law; nor does it need a measure that goes above and beyond proposed state or federal laws. I like to shoot, and enjoy shooting ARs, but there are some sensible measures that can be taken that don't involve outright bans.

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Steven Sadowski

3:34 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Mike:
I’m not conflating causation with correlation. I know the crime came before the bans not visa versa, but the statement holds that the places with the strictest laws have the highest murder rates with guns. The only way you can make your argument work is to employ per capita ratios, but common sense illuminates the fact that I’d rather raise my family in rural Pennsylvania vs. Philadelphia despite your cherry picked statistics.
Secondly, the reason why these studies are so flawed is because many guns are illegally owned and therefore not registered for an accurate count, they don’t take into account the number of officers in their sample, the number of deaths via police shooting suspects, the amount of deaths by suicide, handgun vs. rifle vs. other, and number of guns per household. This is why drug studies are also very sketchy and off.
Last, you seem to have a vendetta against the NRA, which is clouding your arguments on this issue. Like I posted earlier, the NRA is not involved in the shenanigans in Westford.

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Mike

4:18 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Steven, my "vendetta" against the NRA is more of a reaction to the ridiculous rhetoric that gets passed through the right-wing megaphones as fact. Case in point: the argument that strict gun laws are ineffective against urban gun crime, an argument that you echoed in your previous post. The places with the highest gun murder rates enacted the strictest gun laws, just as you acknowledged, and NYC is a place where those tough laws have been shown to be effective.

But back to the studies: Both those studies posted, as well as others on the site, use gun registrations and survey data from gun owners to get actual data on numbers and types of guns in the home. They factor out suicides, but yes, they combine all firearm homicides into one category. The effect from the factors you mention would be negligible.

All that said, I think we both agree that the proposed Westford article is a legislative over-reach that shouldn't pass, likely won't pass, and couldn't be enforced even if it managed to squeak through.

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Steven Sadowski

4:30 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Mike:
I can't agree with several statements you've made. 1. I don't assume it won't pass. The election will be on the 30th and the Dems in the town will go to polls and vote for Markey and will vote for Jefferies too. 1a, just because 150-200 gun owners showed up last night, does not mean they outnumber the amount of progressives who hate guns and will vote for the ban. 2. If you score a 30 on a test and then score a 60 you've shown drastic improvement, but you're still barely passing. I'm from NY so I can tell you NYC has come a long way, but it has also become very unaffordable and many have moved to NJ, so the statistics---once again---are "massaged"to say the least. 3. Gun surveys and registrations only count legal guns and the surveyed. When dealing with a black market (drugs,immigrants, prostitution) it is extremely difficult to find reliable data points. One has to almost forget the data stream and just use one's own eyes. Where would you rather live (in terms of safety)? In DC or ND?

Shawn Kelley

8:28 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

You have to wonder how the men and women of Westford who served during active duty or died during a war would feel about their rights possibly being stripped away after giving so much to preserve them.

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Jim Jarvie

1:06 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Thanks, Hugh! Really appreciate the support.

Erik Jon Warila

10:05 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

@ Mike: correct me if I'm wrong but the article you referenced above does not distinguish between accidental deaths and homicides. In my opinion, a hunting accident is not the same thing as a violent drive by murder. There were 363 homicides by rifles of any type, including semi-automatic ARs in 2011. More homicides were committed with knives that same year.

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Mike

10:25 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Erik, you're right on a couple of counts. Tthe chart shows all deaths by firearm, including suicides and accidental shootings -- often kids and unsecured guns. Both categories are higher in areas with loose gun laws. And you're right about the number of deaths from rifles; I've posted the 2011 FBI UCR numbers here before that show the focus on scary-looking ARs is wildly misplaced. About 72 percent of firearm homicides are actually from handguns, not so-called "assault weapons."

That's just another reason why the proposed ordinance is off the mark.

Sue W

10:57 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

My first comment stands as fact.

And yes I know the full quote. But I also assume that human nature is the same around the world. What is variable is the level of gun ownership and gun laws around the world. When those variables change, the level of death-by-firearms changes.

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Dan D.

12:03 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Big assumption. "human nature" is really human behavior, isn't it? It varies greatly even in our country.

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Andrew Sylvia

11:27 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Comments have been deleted due to violations of the terms of use.

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Benito

12:30 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Let's show Jefferies and David Keele the Door!

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R Gagnon

2:08 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

If this article should pass, what is the enforcement action going to be? There will be people who all of a suden find themselves on the wrong side of a town ordinance. I would guess that most who find themselves in that predicament will refuse to get rid of the newly banned weapons. The only way to effectively enforce the ordinance would be for the police to go door to door looking through peoples' closets, dresser drawers, kitchen junk drawers, night table drawers and every other nook and cranny of every household in town to make sure that these easily hidden magazines are confiscated and removed from within the town boundaries of Westford. So those of you who might have a small stash of weed or some toys we are not allowed to talk about on this web site in the night stand will have all of you closet skeletons exposed to local authorities. What about car traffic on Rt495 and Rt3? Many truckers are well armed. UPS delivers such items and they could be on any of the UPS trucks without the driver's knowledge. Will all you anti-gunners or "lets meet in the middle" types be willing to open your door to the police when they knock? Nothing to hide? really? Think about it and be careful what you ask for.

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Mike

2:13 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Rich, the "meet in the middle" types aren't advocating for the Article, and know that the unenforceability is just one of the reasons why it won't pass.

Your scenario of the "jack-booted thugs" rummaging around in your underthings for contraband isn't going to happen.

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R Gagnon

2:38 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

You cannot just assume it won't pass. I've seen some strange things happen at TM by special interest groups stacking the meeting by calling and texting all their friends just before the article in question is coming up for discussion. Assuming it won't pass for any reason is a dangerous thing. If this articl passes, the next step is enforcement. If the "jack-booted thugs" do not intend to rumage around my dresser drawers (cold day in hades, BTW) how else would it be enforced? It can't be done without a house to house search for banned weapons.

Mike

2:50 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Rich, I think you answered your own question. ;)

It can't be done without a house-to-house search and it's a probable cause nightmare...

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R Gagnon

3:58 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Exactly. But the knee jerk types like Jefferies apparently haven't thought that part through. Should this pass, Jefferies house should be the first one searched. Maybe he is comfortable putting that kind of authority in the hands of police officers but I would never allow it in my house whether I own such LOCALY BANNED weaponry or not.

Phil McKrackin

4:18 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

All you need for happiness in this town is a good gun, a good horse, and a good wife.

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Amber B.

4:34 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Phil, nice nome de plume, but you forgot about the girlfriend/mistress. Shhhh.

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Vincent DiRico

7:48 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Well done! Did they pay town counsel for an opinion on this "conversation" already? heck the folks here clearly pointed out points 1 and 2 (in the findings) were an issue, maybe we can get town counsel to cut the fee to 1/3? and send it to BJ :O

Ghost

8:17 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

No money to honor police, fire, and teachers step increases but money to burn here trampling on the US Constitution? Hypocrites!

Westford is going to get the pants sued off us with the liability on this, bond rating really gonna dive then.

I imagine all police fire and teachers feel real good about taking one for the team last year to see money recklessly thrown around this year!

Clean house time folks

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